AWRLBTWWII: Brides for Sale In “The Kingdom”

The following appeal by Maha Fahd Al-Hujailan was published in the Arab Times today:

Alarabia.net reported on Friday that a 60-year-old man in Hail Province would shortly marry a 10-year-old girl. This report comes on top of another stating that the Hail Province has the dubious distinction of being home to the youngest husband and wife in the world. There could, no doubt, be several unreported instances of old men taking minor girls for wives in other regions of the Kingdom.

While a Saudi newspaper, Shams, expressed outrage at the reported practice of “selling” brides, several people wanted the government to step in and stop the marriage. “Selling” in the context refers to the fact that a girl’s father would agree to marry her to an old man only if he offered an enormous amount of money to the father. Such reports not only bring a bad name to the province but also tarnish the image of the country and the religion, not to say anything of a minor girl being traumatized by the horrors of a forced conjugal union.

[...]

Recent studies on the victims of pedophilia, a situation comparable to the suffering of minor brides, show that they are reluctant to talk about their strange experience. They become vulnerable to depression and self-detestation as the years pass by with the growing realization that they have been exploited in the most horrendous manner.

[...]

An Arab, with his present cultural and religious background, may not accept that legitimate sexual life would mentally harm a girl between 15 and 17. But this does not mean that a minor’s sexual experience is beneficial, or harmless, to her. If the studies showed that even 17-year-old girls suffered mental illness after sex, what could be the state of a child who had to sleep with a man older than her own father.

[...]

The practice of marrying small girls may also lead in several cases to undesirable moral situations. By the time a child-wife becomes a fully grown-up woman with increasing biological and emotional needs, her husband would have reached a stage devoid of physical vigor and emotional warmth. An aged husband can hardly understand the feelings and needs of a young wife. Even if he understands, he is helpless against the advancing senility. The situation may prompt at least some young wives to seek illegal relations with young men. While other women of her age lead a romantic life with their young and strong husbands, the young wife would be nursing her old husband rendered totally weak by the overdose of virility drugs.

[...]

A Saudi woman said that as a girl she used to listen with terror to stories told by her married friends. One day she happened to overhear her grandfather and mother discuss her marriage. She was then in the fifth standard at a primary school. She was so shocked at the grandfather’s plan that she began to perspire profusely, her mouth turned dry and was gasping for breath and she was shivering like anything and fled to her bedroom. Even the memory of that overheard-conversation used to make her shudder and never after that she sought the company of her grandfather.

Lastly I urge the National Human Rights Society and related agencies in Hail and other places to make every effort to stop the wedding, particularly when it has become clear that the relatives of the 10-year-old girl have no pity on her, nor do they care for her rights as a human being.

Ya’Allah! What the hell is wrong with these people??? The only answer to such ignorance is education and that is not a strong point in Saudi Arabia where keeping the people ignorant seems to be at the top of the Islamist agenda. Perhaps with the opening of Western universities introducing critical thinking, stories like this will become fewer and farther between.

AWRLBTWWII: Rasha — Sold To The Highest Bidder!

From Arab News comes this latest:

TAIF: When Rasha registered for high school a few years ago, she discovered that her estranged father had married her off without her knowledge to a man in his 80s in exchange for a SR30,000 (about $8,000) dowry payment. Now a court has denied her appeals to divorce the man.

“The officials at the girls education department discovered that my file had no birth certificate except a temporary one from the hospital where I was born,” Rasha told Al-Riyadh daily in a report published yesterday.

“They asked me to bring my father’s identity card or a printout from the Civil Affairs Directorate. After searching through my papers, they gave me the shock of my life when they told me that my father had married me to an 85-year-old man when I was just 10 years old, and that I am his fourth wife.”

Now the 18-year-old resident of Taif is appealing to the government and the National Society for Human Rights to intervene after a local judge declined to grant the divorce, even after a donor agreed to reimburse the dowry money that the old man was demanding to terminate the marriage.
Rasha’s father and mother split up before she was born, and her grandmother raised her. She says she has never met her father or the man that she was married to without her knowledge.

Islam forbids forced marriages. Though fathers must grant permission for daughters to marry, they cannot force their daughters to marry somebody of their choice. Furthermore, dowry is supposed to be paid to and left under the control of the woman getting married.

Officials at the Civil Affairs Directorate, which is under the Interior Ministry and in charge of registering the civil status of Saudi citizens, told Rasha to file a suit against her father and the old man in court. The court ordered her to take out newspaper advertisements to find the old man. A tip from somebody who read the announcement led to the discovery that the old man is demanding a refund of the dowry.

“I waited for a year looking for someone who would pay me this amount until Princess Jawhara bint Abdul Aziz took the initiative and donated the entire amount. When I took the money to the judge to complete my divorce procedures, he said the case was closed,” Rasha said.

Shut out of the legal system, Rasha is now appealing to the government and human rights activists to help her out of this predicament.

How many times do we have to read these stories and all the excuses about how this isn’t Islam before Muslims will demand REFORM?! Our societies are backwards and the way we are implementing religion misogynist. How can there be a legal system in the so-called “Kingdom” that does not allow this young woman the most basic of human rights — freedom from slavery? This is nothing but human trafficking!

And to those of you who defended them, can you not see the relationship between those sicko “scholars” who tell us that children can be married at any age and this kind of abuse?

I’m utterly disgusted.

Polygyny: Muslims’ Answer For “Biology” — Straight From The Source

I could accept all adult parties happily choosing polygyny, but how often is that the reality? Instead we are faced with an almost overwhelming barrage of jealousy, anger, hurt feelings and neglect while two or more women fight over some loser of a man who is probably totally getting off on playing one off against the other and feeling so sought after. I know that was the case with my ex-jerk.

The following clip is only one man — but he certainly represents the mindset of many, many more. Most would not be so foolish as to expose thei stupidity on TV, but for our viewing pleasure this one did (embedding was disabled on youtube).

It amazes me how easy it is for a Muslim man to justify giving in to his urges without considering the feelings of wives and children. If we allow ourselves to be ruled by what we perceive as a natural biological function (in this case polygyny), then I have a right to alternate nights between Denzel Washington and George Clooney

What Age SHOULD Muslims Marry?

I’ve been thinking about what Omar wrote in the last thread regarding sex, marriage and puberty. It seems he susbscribes (as MANY Muslims probably do) that Muslims should marry as close to puberty as possible to make sure they stay “pure”. It is also in line with the standard interpretation of Islam that masturbation is haram. So does it make sense then that 11-13 year olds are better served by marriage as these people think Islam prescribes than risk any form of haram behavior? If Islam is for all times and places then how do you reconcile the fact that marrying at puberty clashes with the fact that in this day and age most people are neither emotionally developed enough to understand the ramifications of marriage or perhaps more importantly, will have not even completed half of the education needed to be able to make something of yourself and support yourself and a family?

I think Muslims are stuck. They don’t know how to think critically and apply the knowledge that we have within the context of our times. So instead they keep regurgitating the “same old-same old” labeling it the sunnah and insisting that it be followed to the letter, even though it may be disastrous. I think it stems from the focus on memorization in Islam and the de-emphasis on thinking. I’ve said it before: the greatest way to control people is by subverting their ability to think for themselves. Muslims make great sheeple in that regard. I just can’t get on that boat….

P-ewwwww!

The ramifications of Safa’s hubbex’ actions are still being felt by the cuckolded husband of MM and this is turning into a stink-fest (excerpted from The Star where you can read the full article):

When Boutaya read Rigby’s story in the Star a week ago, he realized he was reading the story of his own life. Ismail hadn’t sought a widow, a divorcee, or a woman in need of financial or emotional support when he married Boutaya’s wife –conditions that would justify polygamous unions under Islam. Instead, he married a woman who wasn’t even legally divorced yet. Just a month earlier, Boutaya and his wife had filed for separation in family court.

“This is not Islamic. Nothing about this marriage was Islamic,” said Boutaya, who now has sole custody of his two children. “They used Islam to hide their affair.”

Boutaya said he is shocked a religious man like Aly Hindy, the imam at Salahuddin Islamic Centre in Scarborough, would support such a marriage.

“What he has done has destroyed two families,” said Boutaya. “Why does he still have the licence to marry people?”

Officials with the registrar general’s office investigated Hindy last year, when Boutaya brought this case to their attention, but were unable to prove the allegations.

And there’s more:

More than two years after his wife left him, Boutaya remembers every detail of the moment of revelation he has relived in his mind many times since. The former civil servant came home early from a job-hunting trip to Ottawa to surprise his wife and two children, picking up a cake on his way. When he arrived, he found Ismail sitting at the dinner table, eating comfortably, as if he was in his own home.

“I asked him, `What are you doing here, my friend? You should not be here alone with my wife when I am not here,’” said Boutaya.

“What’s the problem?” Boutaya said Ismail replied. “She is my wife.”

This is the dirty little secret no one wants to talk about — until it happens tp you. Hats off to all those who are coming out of the closet and exposing this farce for what it is.

Women’s Prison: An Analogy In Film Of Post-Revolutiony Iran

We often hear how Islam came to “liberate” us and guarantee our rights. Surely there is a case to be made for this if we are to break down the Quran and Sunnah. However, it is just as easy to make a case against this by the selective choice and interpretation of specific ayat and ahadith. That is not what I want to get into in this post, but rather would like to cast a light on how so-called Muslim societies continue to sink near the bottom of the barrel when it comes to women’s human rights. If I had a riyal for every time I have heard or read Muslims talking about how bad Western society is for women and how wonderful or so-called Islamic societies are — well, I could be purchasing a penthouse on the Pearl.

 Women’s Prison, the first feature film directed by Manijeh Hekmat (2002), presents the incarceration of women from all walks of life in post-Revolutionary Iran as a microcosm of the larger society. The film centers around the changing relationship between the dour, pious warden and a prisoner whose crime was killing an abusive stepfather. The film spans close to twenty years and is divided into three acts: the first is set around 1984, four years after the Revolution and during the Iran/Iraq war; the second act is set in 1992 when the country is slipping into severe poverty coupled with a psycho-social malaise that is raising questions about “Islamic reforms”; and the final act, set in 2001, after Khatami’s attempt to soften the repressive regime.

As the film opens, the new warden (Tahareh) arrives right after a riot over the horrendous conditions in the prison. She promises improvement but it becomes clear immediately that improvement will not come until she “breaks” the spirits of the women she sees as the ringleaders of the prison’s problems. This brings her into immediate conflict with Mitra — awaiting a murder trial that never comes due to the backlog in the court system.  Other characters – including three different ones (played by the director’s own daughter) appearing in each of the three acts of the film — enrich the plot by allowing us to see the complex relationships that develop in the prison and the increasing effects of the failure of the Revolution.

Women’s Prison functions on many symbolic levels. The setting — the prison itself — is transformed throughout the film and in some ways is barely recognizable in the final act as the chaotic prison overturned by rioting in the opening act.  In 1984 the prison is dirty and infested with lice, with broken plumbing, no heat, little food that is not spoiled and virtually no comforts. By 1991 we see the prison facility has improved but it is now overcrowded and experiencing fights, drug abuse, same-sex rape and suicide. And in the final act, the film is so overcrowded with women incarcerated for seemingly any offense and legal system that can no longer keep up with the numbers of women being moved through it. The stasis of the courts becomes a metaphor for the implosion of Iranian society that seems inevitable.

The characters add another symbolic dimension to the film. Taherah is strong but colorless in the opening act, contrasted with the defiant and passionate Mitra. Over time, Mitra is “tamed” and Taherah is beaten down by the problems created by the stagnant governmental bureaucracy. One of the most poignant scenes in the film is when Taherah picks up a red lipstick that has been confiscated in a shakedown and applies it in front of a mirror, touching her face and seemingly not recognizing her embellished appearance.

Babies are born. Older children are sent to orphanages as they grow up. As time marches on — in their lives and in the film’s three acts – so do blindfolded women go to their deaths as they are taken from the prison to the gallows. Their crimes are not clear and yet it doesn’t seem to matter. What we do see is that the executions don’t seem to be having the desired effect — which is seemingly in part to reduce crime in the society, because the prison just keeps getting more crowded, its social problems multiplying ten-fold.

Women’s Prison isn’t a happy film — in fact, it was banned by the Iranian government upon its release — but it is a thought provoking film. It is an Iranian view of the declining situation in the so-called Islamic Republic that begs to question if you can imprison a whole society and still be considered a revolutionary success.

 

What Is The Status Of Women In The “Kingdom”?

Yeah, I know. You’ll get lots of differing responses to this, just as you do when you ask Muslim women how they feel about wearing a headscarf. But I submit the following based on actual research by Hatoon Al-Fassi on women in Arabia during the pre-Islamic times (by Andrew Hammond for Reuters:

RIYADH (Reuters) - When clerics, ministers and businessmen gathered at a forum in Riyadh last month to discuss women in the workplace, there were no women in sight. Typically for Saudi Arabia, the women who took part were seated in a separate room so the men could only hear them. Such oddities are part and parcel of the complex system of social control maintained by clerics of Saudi Arabia’s austere version of Sunni Islamic law, often termed Wahhabism. It’s a system called into question by scholar Hatoon al-Fassi.

In her study, “Women In Pre-Islamic Arabia”, the outspoken rights advocate argues women in the pre-Islamic period enjoyed considerable rights in the Nabataean state, an urban Arabian kingdom centered in modern Jordan, south Syria and northwest Saudi Arabia during the Roman empire. Most controversially, Fassi says women in Nabataea — whose capital was the famous rose-red city of Petra in south Jordan and which was at its height during the lifetime of Jesus Christ — enjoyed more freedom than in Saudi Arabia today because clerics have misunderstood the origins of Islamic law. She also suggests some Saudi restrictions on women may have their origins in Greco-Roman traditions.

“One of the objectives of this book is to question the assumption of subordination of women in pre-Islamic Arabia,” Fassi writes. “Most of the practices related to women’s status are based on some local traditional practices that are not necessarily Islamic. Nor are they essentially Arabian.”

She argues women in Nabataea were free to conduct legal contracts in their own name with no male guardian, unlike in Greek and Roman law, and in Saudi Arabia where the guardian is central to the clerics’ idea of a moral public sphere. The Wahhabi interpretation of sharia requires a “muhrim” — father, husband, brother or son — to accompany women in public, allow them to travel and attest their legal contracts. U.S.-based Human Rights Watch attacked that system in a report in April as treating women as effectively legal minors.

At last month’s televised “National Dialogue”, clerics insisted women could work only in segregated female-only workspaces. Their opponents in government say these rules have kept unemployment among women at around 26 percent.

“I found that with Nabataean women the legal status and self representation was stronger and more evident than with Greek women who needed always a ‘tutor’, or representative, in order to conclude any contract,” Fassi said in an interview.

“An adaptation of Greek and Roman laws was inserted in Islamic law,” she said, referring to guardianship. “I would insist that it’s an ancient adaptation, that (Muslim) scholars are not aware of, and they would really be shocked.”

ORIGINS OF SHARIA

The main schools of sharia were codified in the 9th century AD in territories where a ruling Arab elite mixed with non-Arab and non-Muslim populations in the aftermath of the Arab conquests and the rise of Islam in the 7th century AD. The main body of the law is derived mainly from oral traditions attributed to the Prophet Mohammad, and viewed by Islamic scholars as divine in origin. Scholars in the West have seen, in effect, a mix of Arabian, Jewish and Roman origins.

“The argument about Greco-Roman law having influenced the sharia rules about women could have some basis if one thinks in terms of Middle Eastern adaptations — ‘provincial versions’ — of Greco-Roman law,” said Gerald Hawting, a historian of early Islam at the School of Oriental & African Studies in London.

Fassi, he said, “is not likely to win many friends among the traditional ulama (scholars) by arguing that important elements of the sharia originate from human history and not from God”.

Fassi’s ideas reflect views often expressed by Arab liberals — that restrictive traditions in the empires conquered by the Arabs found their way into Islam. Egyptian feminist Nawal al-Saadawi, for one, has often been attacked for saying as much.

“The deterioration in women’s status is clear. We now live the worst status imaginable as women,” said Fawziya al-Oyouni, a women’s rights activist who lobbies for women’s right to drive. “There is no religious text that stipulates ‘guardianship’.”

MORE LIBERAL TIMES

Signs are around 2,000 years ago things were not so strict. Using coins and inscriptions on Nabataean tombs and monuments in Greek and Semitic languages, Fassi surmises that women’s independent status was linked to a rise in trade and political exchanges in the ancient world at the time.

“There was a certain economic change in that period that allowed women to become stronger or more visible,” she said. “I believe it was because of the economic absence of men … At the end of the first century BC the caravan trade became intensive, twice a year rather than once in the previous millennium.”

The last of the Middle East states to fall to direct Roman rule in 106 AD, the Nabataean confederation’s power was based on desert trade routes from Yemen to Greece and Rome. Nabataean queens had coins struck in their name and showing their face, with light hair-covering veils. Today, Saudi clerics expound at length on television and in other forums on the complex rules over when women can and cannot reveal their faces.

An urbanized Bedouin state, Nabataea has received relatively little attention from scholars, some of whom question whether it was authentically Arab. Petra was even forgotten to history until “discovered” in 1812 by Swiss explorer Johann Burckhardt. Fassi, banned from teaching at King Saud University since 2001, suggested one reason for the neglect was that Nabataea defies stereotypes about Arabs.

“(Nabataea) has weakened the idea that Arabians were merely or essentially nomads, by having an Arabian urbanized state,” she says in her book, published by British Archaeological Reports.

This woman is probably considered very dangerous by TPTB , but she doesn’t look like such a threat, does she?

Oh, this really gives me so many interesting things to explore!

Why Is It So Difficult To Get Muslim Countries To Pass Laws To Protect Children?

In fact, shouldn’t we Muslims be leading the way? Instead, we are lagging far behind in this regard. You cannot imagine how many Muslims are actually defending the Mormon mothers who have played an active role in marrying off their underage daughters (or allowing them to be married) into polygynous marriages with grizzled old geezers, which amounts to child abuse. Is it because we are doing the same thing and don’t want people calling us into account?

Tihun Nebiyu, 7, a girl from central Ethiopia, waits to be presented to her 17-year-old husband on her wedding day. (Tribune photo by Heather Stone. / December 12, 2004) 

 

 

Consider this:

8-year-old girl’s divorce is finalized while a law to prevent early marriage stalls

By: Hamed Thabet

Eight-year-old Nojoud is now safe after an anonymous donor paid her 30-year-old husband to divorce her. Although this chapter of her life has closed, there are many other Yemeni girls who still suffer from early marriage and its consequences.

Feminist groups in Yemen are urging the Parliament to legally define a minimum marriage age. [Does anybody else see labeling these groups as "feminist" to be a red herring?] However, there is a long way to go before girls like Nojoud can be free from detrimental early marriages.

A few months ago, Nojoud was an average 8-year-old girl from a poor family. Then Nojoud’s father decided to marry her off to a man more than three times her age. Overnight, Nojoud became a wife, enduring physical and sexual abuse for two months until she ran away with the help of her uncle and filed a court case against her father and her husband.

On April 15, with support from her lawyer Shatha Mohammed Nasser and Judge Abud Al-Khaleaq Ghowber, Nojoud paid her way out of marriage with YR 100,000 from an anonymous donor in the Emirates and happily became an 8-year-old divorcee.

“This was the first time a girl came to us for a divorce. We are going to do our best to push the parliament to change the marriage law,” said Judge Ghowber.

“I am so happy to be free and I will go back to school and will never think of getting married again,” Nojoud said joyfully. “It is a good feeling to be rid of my husband and his bad treatment.”

She said that she felt lucky that she did not have to continue in such a marriage and live out a life similar to her sisters, who had been married young [though not as young as Nojoud] and have already bore children.

“Although Nojoud does not know her real birthday, I believe this day she was born again and it would be apt to celebrate this day as the first day of her new life,” said Nasser.

And why is this a bad thing?

Early marriage in Yemen:

According to the International Center for Research on Women’s 2007 statistics, Yemen is one of 20 developing countries where early marriage is common. Nearly half of all Yemeni girls are married before the age of 18.

Most women have their first child immediately after their first menstruation cycle and are likely to have a child every 12 months during their reproductive lifespan. Yemen’s fertility rate is extremely high, with an average 6.3 children per each woman, and the country also has some of the highest mother and infant mortality rates worldwide.

According to research on early marriage in Yemen from Oxfam and the United Nations Population Fund, there are severe physical consequences that result from early marriage and subsequent early childbirth such as nutritional anemia, post-partum hemorrhages, obstetric fistula (a disorder that affects the bladder and causes leaking of urine or feces), plus mother and infant mortality.

Additionally, many girls like Nojoud develop irreparable psychological complexes from early marriage and the forced sexual encounters that accompany it. Early marriage also contributes to divorce and family problems.

“I hated nights because they usually meant that my husband would come to my bed. I used to run from him and he would chase me and beat me and do his thing. I pray that my younger sisters do not face the same fate,” said Nojoud. Now the 8-year-old is living with her uncle and his family in relative safety.

So what have the we and the Yemenis learned from this?

A divided society

The Yemeni personal status law stipulates that a girl cannot be wed until she is ready for intercourse, which in essence leaves the judgment up to the girl’s parents or guardians. Judge Ghowber explained that early marriages are usually the fault of the parents. He insisted that there must be increased awareness among Yemeni families in order to avoid these serious mistakes.

A number of Yemeni religious scholars, including some in the Evaluation and Jurisprudence Committee in the Parliament, say that since there is no religious statement defining a minimum age for marriage, then early marriage is perfectly fine if not desirable.

Other scholars and religious authorities, like Judge Hamoud Al-Hitar, the Minister of Endowment, want to create legislation to prevent parents from marrying their girls off at a young age and to prevent religious sheikhs from endorsing such marriages.

“Those who approve of girls marrying at 13, 14 or even below 18, are barbaric men who abuse childhood and are irresponsible,” said religious scholar Yahiya Al-Najar, the former Minister of Endowment. He explained that there should be a minimum age for boys and girls to marry in order to complete their physical and mental development and so that they can manage the responsibilities of marriage and raising a family.

Al-Hitar said that the minimum age of marriage should be 16-years-old, no less. He added that previous religious bodies in charge of jurisprudence wrote such laws in 1976 and in 1988. “Those who say that defining a minimum age for marriage is un-Islamic do not understand the religion at all,” said Al-Hitar. “Defining a minimum age of marriage is a need dedicated by life’s nature.”

The Yemeni parliament is equally divided between MPs who believe in safe motherhood (and thereby banning early marriage) and those who don’t. Deputy speaker of Parliament, MP Himyar Al-Ahmar, said that he supports the creation of legislation against early marriage, requested by the Women’s National Committee, but prefers to forward the issue to the Evaluation and Jurisprudence Committee, which is strongly against such legislation.

Rasheeda Al-Hamadani, chair of the Women’s National Committee, promised to continue to raise awareness about the issue by holding workshops soon with religious leaders, MPs and decision makers.

Here are some stats from the ICRW 2007 Report:

Child Marriage Around the World (Percentage of girls marrying before the age of 1

1 Niger 76.6
2 Chad 71.5
3 Bangladesh 68.7
4 Mali 65.4
5 Guinea 64.5
6 Central African Republic 57.0
7 Nepal 56.1
8 Mozambique 55.9
9 Uganda 54.1
10 Burkina Faso 51.9
11 India 50.0
12 Ethiopia 49.1
13 Liberia 48.4
13 Yemen 48.4
15 Cameroon 47.2
16 Eritrea 47.0
17 Malawi 46.9
18 Nicaragua 43.3
18 Nigeria 43.3
20 Zambia 42.1

How many of these have sizable Muslim populations? According to Factbook:

1 Niger 91.0% of the population is Muslim
2 Chad 85.0% of the population is Muslim
3 Bangladesh 88.0% of the population is Muslim
4 Mali 90.0% of the population is Muslim
5 Guinea 95.0% of the population is Muslim
6 Central African Republic 55.0% of the population is Muslim
7 Nepal 4.0% of the population is Muslim
8 Mozambique 29.0% of the population is Muslim
9 Uganda 36.0% of the population is Muslim
10 Burkina Faso 50.0% of the population is Muslim
11 India 14.0% of the population is Muslim
12 Ethiopia 65.0% of the population is Muslim
13 Liberia 30.0% of the population is Muslim
13 Yemen 99.0% of the population is Muslim
15 Cameroon 55.0% of the population is Muslim
16 Eritrea 80.0% of the population is Muslim
17 Malawi 35.0% of the population is Muslim
18 Nicaragua 0.0% of the population is Muslim
18 Nigeria 75.0% of the population is Muslim
20 Zambia 15.0% of the population is Muslim

12 out of the 20 countries with the highest perecntage of child marriages have Muslim populations that make up 50% or more of the overall population. At the same time, I recognize that these are all very under developed countries with strong tribal systems for the most part. So what are we Muslims doing to help these countries develop and implement laws that will respect human rights and especially the rights of children?

Not enough, in my opinion.

Addendum (Please note Simon): There are many sources from which one might take figures regarding Muslim populations. If I look at Islamicweb, their figures for the Muslim population in Ethiopia is 65% and Eritrea is 80%. If we look at Wikipedia (based on the US State Dept. figures from 2006-2007) they rate Ethiopia as being 32.8- 45% Muslim and Eritrea as being 48- 60% Muslim. The point is that everybody should be concerned about these issues and certainly MUSLIMS should be.

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